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Free Community Chat: Back-to-School with Food Allergies

Kathy PModerator
Welcome everyone!
Kathy P
K8sMom2002
K8sMom2002
Kathy PModerator
Welcome to the “Ask Me Anything” About Back-to-School chat.
Kathy P
Kathy PModerator
We are pleased to have attorney, author and food allergy advocate Laurel Francoeur as our guest speaker tonight.
Kathy P
Kathy PModerator
Moderators tonight will be myself and Cynthia (K8sMom).
Kathy P
Kathy PModerator
All information from tonight’s chat is for personal use only. Any other use requires express permission from the Kids With Food Allergies division of the Asthma & Allergy Foundation of America.
Kathy P
Kathy PModerator
No information presented during this chat is intended as legal or medical advice. Please consult your child’s doctor for specifics about your child’s conditions and needs.
Kathy P
Jen
Hi everyone!
Jen
Kathy PModerator
We will try to get as many questions answered as possible. Remember, we cannot address specific legal or medical issues.
Kathy P
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
Hello!
Kathy PModerator
Let's start with a great question that was submitted: 1. What is the definition of 'inclusion'? Does the ADA or other law define inclusion?
Kathy P
K8sMom2002
Thanks for doing this for us, Laurel!
K8sMom2002
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
Under both 504 and the ADA, a child with disabilities must be included as fully as possible and be able to enjoy all the benefits of the activity in the least restrictive environment.
Melanie CarverModerator
Hi everyone, thanks for joining us tonight!
Melanie Carver
Kathy PModerator
Here is more background info from the member who submitted the question: We have a 504 for her which provides her with a food-free classroom, but there are many cases where several classrooms come together to do these food-centric activities, and this is when the problems arise. I have been given the option of my daughter 'watching' the activity all the other children were doing and learning that way, which I reject as inclusion. Another weird one was the making of gingerbread houses using cookies and candy by all children except mine. It was suggested to me that my daughter use cardboard. When I argued against these things initially, the principle gave me the analogy of a person with no mobility not being able to take gym class but not expecting the rest of the school to give up gym class.
Kathy P
Kathy PModerator
Who gets to determine what "inclusion" means?
Kathy P
K8sMom2002
We will also be periodically posting resources and links from the KFA website.
K8sMom2002
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
Least restricitive means that if there is a way that makes the child included vs another way, the inclusion way must be favored. Watching when there is a way to make the child included (ie using safe foods) is not an option bc it is not the least restrictive. No comparison with the mobility issue since it is easy for the school to make the project accessible.
Kathy PModerator
Does that mean it really is a bit subjective?
Kathy P
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
If you and the school are at an impasse, then the Dept of Education OCR or your state's board of education due process (or last resort federal court) decides.
Kathy PModerator
Great - thanks!
Kathy P
Kathy PModerator
Do any members have questions? Don't be shy! We'll try to get to as many as possible tonight.
Kathy P
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
Yes it is very subjective and specific to each child. Not all fa kids have the same needs or need the same accommodations. If Suzy has a fa and doesn't need to sit at the allergen-free table, that doesn't mean that Tommy cannot sit at that table if he needs it.
Kathy PModerator
I think that also answers another question we received: If the school or school system declares your child NOT eligible for a 504, what appeals rights do you have?
Kathy P
Jenna C
(that gym class analogy is a terribly analogy by the way)
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
Feel free to ask me anything.
K8sMom2002
Yes, Jenna, I agree!
K8sMom2002
Allergicmamaof3
If your child doesn't need to sit at the allergen free table amnd doesn't have contact allergies do they still need a 504 plan? Specifically in pre-k
Allergicmamaof3
K8sMom2002
Good question, AllergicMamaof3
K8sMom2002
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
If you are denied a 504 plan or even denied the 504 process, bring a complaint to the Department of Ed OCR (federal). You can also go to your state dept of ed, but the OCR is tasked with making sure schools comply with the process whereas your state is more involved in the nitty gritty.
Allergicmamaof3
Thank you
Allergicmamaof3
Matt's Mommy
Are there any positive or negative incentives for school districts to follow the 504 laws?
B.A. Shapiro
Perhaps you were going to get to this, but if a teacher blatantly disregards a specific element of a 504 plan, what is the "typical" or appropriate school response to that teacher?
Kathy PModerator
Great questions....
Kathy P
K8sMom2002
We have a great video about 504 Plans and IHCPs on our KFA site!
K8sMom2002
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
I don't always agree with other speakers on the topic of everyone needs a 504. If your school has very good policies, you may not need a 504. Take the example of a child with lobster allergy. Since there may be virtually no lobsters served at the school, that child may not need any accommodation. Again, it is dependent on what the child needs and what the school is already doing.
Jenna C
Here is a question-why would you pursue a 504 over an IHCP or vice versa?
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
To be clear, an accommodation is a change in the way the school is doing things. If they already do it, you cannot get an accommodation.
MrsAllisonW
My Kindergarten FA child will be given a 504 plan (we meet in August), and I am concerned about what I need to do to ensure substitute teachers adhere to this 504 plan and keep him safe (doesn't give out candy, doesn't allow him snacks not approved by me, etc). What is usually done in regards to schools and sub teachers when it comes to food allergies and 504 plans? This is our first time dealing with it in a school setting.
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
If a teacher blatantly refuses to implement part of a 504 plan, and you've already talked to the teacher, go to the district 504 coordinator. If they don't help you, consider going to your state board of education. A school risks losing federal funding if they don't comply with 504.
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
Substitute teachers need to follow the 504
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
I suggest putting a provision in the plan that the substitutes must check with the front desk before going to the classroom and review the child's 504 plan
B.A. Shapiro
I think you mean "already talked to the teacher" before they did it?
HG-100
At our school, the teachers note in the attendance log about food allergies, to help ensure that substitutes see the information.
K8sMom2002
Can you ask in your 504 to have a set list of substitute teachers to choose from?
K8sMom2002
K8sMom2002
HG-100, great strategy!
K8sMom2002
HG-100
I'm interested that you don't mention talking with the school principal before talking to the district coordinator, for a non-504-compliant teacher. what role should the principal have in the process?
MrsAllisonW
Great feedback -- I'm taking notes on all of these to share in our meeting.
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
Yes. You'd want to talk to the teacher first to see if it was an innocent misunderstanding before you pull the big guns . If it is, education of the teacher could work. If not, go above the teacher.
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
You cannot ask for a specific list of substitute teachers.
B.A. Shapiro
Have been through all of this, but did not escalate to board of education.
Melanie CarverModerator
I like the attendance log idea. Our school uses binders in each classroom so that substitutes have all the info they need.
Melanie Carver
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
Sub took break got food ignored teachers notes ignored daughter reminding and fed snickers twix etc to class and VP claims her punishment (if any) private therefore enforcing of 504 is at risk nut free class has multiple violations....if hearts aren't in it they seem to be able to ruin the safety
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
Yes the principal should be involved too.
K8sMom2002
Laurel gave an excellent webinar that is recorded on KFA about 504s. The video link is http://community.kidswithfooda...-video-and-resources
K8sMom2002
B.A. Shapiro
My school gave same claim that punishment was "private" and would never inform me anything about it.
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
They may have punished but I want PREVENT
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
HG-100
I would be more interested in "What's been done to make sure this won't happen again" than punishment.
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
So you may not be able to know the punishment to the teacher due to union rules, but so long as the behavior is corrected, that is what matters.
MrsAllisonW
Arleighn --- that's a big reason why I'm worried the subs won't understand the seriousness!
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
If a sub screws up, the school is on the hook for that.
K8sMom2002
Arleighn, did it help your situation?
K8sMom2002
Kathy PModerator
Here is another question that was submitted: At what grade can you have a 504 plan / IEP? Can you only have one starting in Kindergarten?
Kathy P
B.A. Shapiro
Change matters, but is not necessarily observable as these events are sporadic.
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
Yes. 504 protection goes from kindergarten to grade 12. It continues on to college, but the rules in college are different
Kathy PModerator
If you don't have one starting in Kinder, can you still request one in later grades?
Kathy P
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
They say they did their best so no change and blamed Sub. I thought subs should sign in to special needs classes and acknowledge what rules are set but I backed off from suggesting anything
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
HG-100
I'd also want to know that my child always had a recourse in the moment. That he would be able to go to the school nurse/guidance counselor/principal if he felt unsafe due to something like Snickers in the classroom.
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
If a preschool is subject to ADA (all are except religious) and/or gets federal funding, accommodations can start in preschool.
Melanie CarverModerator
Reminder - don't forget to check out KFA's School resources, including our 10 tips for planning a successful school year: http://www.kidswithfoodallergi...ips-for-parents.aspx
10-School-Planning-Tips-For-Children-With-Food-Allergies-thumbnail
Melanie Carver
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
A good provision to put in a 504 is that the student has the right to go to the nurse anytime without the teacher's permission.
Kathy PModerator
Oh, that good to know! You can star as early as preschool getting accommodations.
Kathy P
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
Teacher on campus volunteered daughter to come if scared again. That gave peace to return her to school safe place
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
Yes. If the preschool doesn't get federal funding, you can get accommodations but the rules are a little different.
Kathy PModerator
What a great teacher!
Kathy P
Melanie CarverModerator
Laurel, that is an excellent point about access to the school nurse. Earlier this year, two students were punished for seeking the school nurse during a severe asthma attack.
Melanie Carver
Kathy PModerator
That brings up another question: 9. Does it matter how the school is funded? i.e. are certain 'types' of school covered by Section 504 vs. others?
Kathy P
K8sMom2002
Can something like that be written into the 504?
K8sMom2002
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
That can be written into a 504.
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
any school or program that gets federal funding is subject to 504 - that includes all public schools
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
We have part time nurses but a safe point of contact is what I will change thank u
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
K8sMom2002
What sorts of funding would private schools get?
K8sMom2002
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
private schools that do not get federal funding and are not religious must follow ADA. accommodations possible but slightly different rules
Former Member
why doesn't the 504 plan have money attached to it? for staffing for schools, like IEPs do
K8sMom2002
Brooke, that's an excellent point to bring to your Member of Congress!
K8sMom2002
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
Funding sources are grants, scholarships, participation in federal school lunch program
K8sMom2002
So if a daycare or preschool offers lunch or breakfast thru school lunch, you can ask for a 504 evaluation?
K8sMom2002
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
Not sure why 504 is unfunded but the fact that it is has led to a discrepancy in the way it is interpreted between OCR and the federal courts.
Nihal
We live in Turkey, having a 6 yrs old with severe and multiple food allergies. Unfortunately there is no 504 law or any other legal responsibilities at schools for allergic kids. We just can meet and tell our story and ask for cooperation to handle. My question is; with all the experience you have about back to school which steps do you suggest me to follow to ensure a secure school year before the start up of the term.
bluej
What would the private school follow if it does not get federal funding and is religious?
HG-100
the CDC guidelines on FA are voluntary, but i think they're a good source for starting to think of some of the situations in school, deciding about 504, etc. http://www.cdc.gov/healthyyout..._allergy_web_508.pdf
Kathy PModerator
Nihal - we didn't have a 504 for our kids. We met with teachers, I wrote up a folder of info.
Kathy P
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
private religious school with no federal funding does not have to accommodate, unfortunately. try to find some source of funding if you can
K8sMom2002
HG-100, yes, they are.
K8sMom2002
K8sMom2002
What sort of accommodations have any of you asked for successfully?
K8sMom2002
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
We qualify for free lunch but won't try here in this CA district. WA was progressive and also had willing hearts. Lunch room took me behind counter to read labels etc sometimes what I ask for is dependent on the hearts she is subject to encountering when so many hours in their hands
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
lreetz
Is it the schools responsibility to inform other schools during sporting events that your child is going to be coming to their school and to make sure accommodations are made?
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
some good accommodations are hand washing after meals, walkie talkie at recess
Nihal
Thank you for the link
K8sMom2002
No way to legislate willing hearts, is there, Arleighn?
K8sMom2002
Kathy PModerator
Arleighn - here is a resource on nutrition and safety - http://community.kidswithfooda...-video-and-resources
Kathy P
K8sMom2002
And here are some sample 504 plans
K8sMom2002
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
The thing with one school telling another is that the privacy laws kick in. A school employee can tell another employee about the fa on a "need to know" basis or in the case of an emergency
K8sMom2002
LReetz, I've had good luck working with DD's cheer coach to keep her safe.
K8sMom2002
Kathy PModerator
Does that mean you can't expect the same accommodations if your child is on a sports team and they compete at other schools? What is the best way to manage that?
Kathy P
Stef Lau-Chen
do 504s follow the student from one school to another? just curious. I don't need to know for this year.
Stef Lau-Chen
K8sMom2002
Good question, Stef!
K8sMom2002
chrissyvalenti
Does the idea of inclusion being favored also apply to cebrations and field days and thing like that where a snack is distributed? Should the school attempt to have a snack all can enjoy of it is possible?
K8sMom2002
Another good question!
K8sMom2002
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
504's do follow from one school to another but the new school has to reevaluate the accommodations after a certain time fram (I think it is 30 days, but not sure)
Stef Lau-Chen
thanks
Stef Lau-Chen
lreetz
we had an incident with a school having a man eating peanut m&ms at the scorers table where my son had to check in during district basketball. he was a mess the entire game. we have have major issues with sporting events at our school.
K8sMom2002
Since it's federal, the plan crosses state lines, right? Until it's re-evaluated?
K8sMom2002
K8sMom2002
LReetz
K8sMom2002
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
If you go to another school for a sports event, the responsibility to accommodate rests with your school. It may take some creative thinking if the other school has different polices than your own school.
Kathy PModerator
That's a good distinction to know!
Kathy P
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
Any event that is school-sponsored regardless of whether before or after school needs to be accommodated
K8sMom2002
So if the school has control of it or a say in how it's run or supports it financially, then it falls under a 504?
K8sMom2002
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
No but I have had to apologise and am humbled when having unrealistic expectations OR allowed myself to be intimidated the apology went to teachers or my child and self. Tough balance. So lucky she is older 11 yrs but switching classes jr high high school has me getting her ready in ways I am still sorry she must be...so adult like
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
The big question is always about PTO's. Most of the time, a school must make PTO events comply with 504. There is a test that OCR uses. I wrote a blog piece describing this.
K8sMom2002
Did Jenna's question get answered: why would you pursue a 504 over an IHCP or vice versa?
K8sMom2002
B.A. Shapiro
can you provide link to blog post re: PTOs please?
Kathy PModerator
Do PTA/PTO Events Need to Be Accessible Under Section 504? - http://foodallergyconsulting.c...essible-section-504/
Kathy P
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
A 504 has procedures in place for enforcing. An IHCP does not. Some people feel uncomfortable asking for a 504 if they have a good relationship with the school.
B.A. Shapiro
Kathy PModerator
Here is another submitted question I think many have dealt with: 4. What is the best way to handle "frustration" from other parents when your child's accommodations inconvenience other parents or they are disgruntled about them?
Kathy P
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
Again, whether 504 or IHCP depends on your child, how willing the school is to accommodate. 504 is always better. Just be aware that schools sometimes take an offensive stand if you ask for a 504.
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
The law clearly says that the school can only take into consideration what your child needs under 504, not how it will affect other parents, students, etc.
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
However, in the real world schools do consider the effects. That brings up the whole "reasonable accommodation" standard
K8sMom2002
Who gets to determine what is "reasonable?"
K8sMom2002
McSherry
Are 504's better then a ICHP in every state? Our local advocate agreed with the school that they are both enforceable.
McSherry
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
The IHCP is enforceable in a more round about way than the 504. The 504 has written procedures for enforcement. An IHCP would have to be enforced using state laws like negligence.
K8sMom2002
This link http://community.kidswithfooda...-video-and-resources talks about the difference of IHCP and 504.
K8sMom2002
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
The problem with reasonable accommodations is that it is nowhere in the regs for 504 for schools. OCR has said over and over again that reasonable is not the standard. However, federal courts have used the reasonable standard and I have seen it used in some state due process cases.
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
If you cannot come to an agreement with the school over what is reasonable, I would first try going to the OCR. They are the most sympathetic on this issue
Kathy PModerator
What about school-wide events - many members have had issues with school-wide events involving food.
Kathy P
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
So long as it is school sponsored, it falls under 504
Babs48
We are currently working on a 504 plan for our son - school policy already states no eating particular allergens in classroom however this continues to happen unfortunately on a regular basis - currently school is not willing to include it in a 504 or follow policy. How would deal with this??
lreetz
what about team basketball dinners? where parents bring in food? is that school sponsored?
Kathy PModerator
Do you mean that the school policy for not eating in those classrooms is not being enforced?
Kathy P
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
If they are not following the policy, then I would ask for it to be in a 504 bc then it would be a change (the change being you are forcing them to follow their policy which they are not doing)
K8sMom2002
LReetz, is the dinner on school grounds?
K8sMom2002
lreetz
yes
Babs48
Yes both teachers and students are openly violating it
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
If they refuse to put it in the 504 and refuse to follow the policy, I would either go to the school committee and complaint about the policy or go to a due process hearing with your state dept of ed
Babs48
We were told legally they cannot enforce it so therefore they will not include it
K8sMom2002
They put a rule in their handbook that they can't legally enforce?
K8sMom2002
lreetz
Thank you so much! We have been fighting getting his 504 done since February. We keep getting pushed aside.
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
If the basketball is school sponsored, they must accommodate. It might mean the school would have to tell the parents what they can and cannot bring
Ashley S.
The last day of school this past year, I discovered that my son's school lost his epi pens. I filed with ocr because they are accusing me of checking out my sons epi pens without any written prove (I never checked them out). They then said, "well, know that our school has extra epi pens." We are in California (mandatory stock epi) but every time I had asked previously they said they didn't have it. The office lady said they have epi pens that another parent gave them... . My question, how do I go about finding out if they have stock epi or if these extra epi pens are actually someone elses prescription like the office lady told me (in person)?
Ashley S.
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
If they admit it cannot be enforced, then it is like no rule at all and I would insist it be in the 504. If they refuse, consider filing a complaint
Babs48
Ok thank you very much!!
K8sMom2002
Ashley, did you have the Epi pens in their original labeled box?
K8sMom2002
McSherry
If your child qualifies for a IEP/IHCP for whatever reason can you also have/ask for a 504?
McSherry
Allergicmamaof3
If your child is part of the head start federal preschool program do you have to follow usda guidelines for the lunch you send in.
Allergicmamaof3
Ashley S.
No, they were in a black epi pen bag with the original md box info inside. The bag had his picture to and basic info on the outside.
Ashley S.
Kathy PModerator
McSherry - we have great webinar that Laurel did on 504 vs IHCP - http://community.kidswithfooda...-video-and-resources
Kathy P
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
My screen keeps scrolling so I can
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
My screen keeps scrolling
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
PTA lady assured me no food then set peanut butter sandwich down next to daughters Epi asking "you can't die from smelling it right?" Ouch my daughter chose to stay in science Olympiad anyway and is proud of herself. But this parent was aiming to teach her perspective and we can't avoid these types in the world. I wish u all attended our school. My goal is to find families locally now for peace in this journey.
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
Kathy PModerator
I just had a weird glitch too....
Kathy P
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
The school cannot tell you what other students have for epipens
chrissyvalenti
So
Babs48
Appreciate your advice we have had 9 hours of 504 meeting with no plan being finalized after a teacher ate allergen in front of our son and waved nuts in his face and told him could leave the room or stay away from her...
chrissyvalenti
sorry mistake typing
Kathy PModerator
We are at the 10 min mark - if we don't get to your question, we may be able to do a followup to get them answered.
Kathy P
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
Ca law just began FORCED stock Epi before it was suggestion....I have to look up effective dates. We have Epi self carry in home room in office and music. 2 pak sets wherever she goes
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
BABs48 - talk to me after. Sounds like more is going on there.
B.A. Shapiro
BABS48 - I had a line in a 504 that specifically kept my daughter out of a particular teacher's classroom (well known for poor FA behavior)
MRD
If a preschool is religious, are there any other laws that may apply (since they are excluded under Section 504)?
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
Some states have anti-discrimination laws that apply to religious schools you'd have to check your state
Ashley S.
We have two medical kits. The black one was in the office and the red one was in the classroom.
Ashley S.
MRD
Thank you Laurel.
MrsAllisonW
I have to leave the chat, but thank you for all of the questions/answers/suggestions!
Babs48
Thank you! Via email will that work for you? Here is my email info Barb@andersonautogroup.com
Kathy PModerator
Thanks for joining us MrsAllisonW
Kathy P
Kathy PModerator
Laurel - can you clarify - are there still some caveats to the "mandatory" stocking laws like the one in CA? http://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/he/hn/epiadmin.asp
Kathy P
K8sMom2002
Thanks! And be sure to join us on the forums!
K8sMom2002
Ashley S.
Who would I ask to find out if my sons school has stock epi? Thank you.
Ashley S.
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
Babs48 you need higher legal source to fight. That is disgusting so so sorry.
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
Someone asked in the post about school district policies? A good policy is the town of Lexington, MA. They were one of the first to implement a district-wide fa policy. Google it to see it. Many towns have develeped fa policies based on the federal requirement that they have a wellness committee
Kathy PModerator
If your question was answered and you'd like to get it (possibly) answered - I've started a topic that can be used - http://community.kidswithfooda...ons-from-school-chat
Kathy P
Kathy PModerator
We are coming down to the wire!
Kathy P
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
I'd have to look specifically at CA stocking law to see what it says
Kathy PModerator
Thank you everyone who joined us tonight. I hope it was informative.
Kathy P
Kathy PModerator
Thanks Laurel - and thank you so much for being our guest speaker!
Kathy P
B.A. Shapiro
Thank you!
Melanie CarverModerator
Laurel, thank you so much for joining us as a featured guest for tonight's chat! Your input is invaluable. I also thank our KFA members for coming. We hope you found tonight's chat helpful with your school planning.
Melanie Carver
Ashley S.
Thank you
Ashley S.
Kathy PModerator
Your knowledge and willing to share your expertise is always appreciated!
Kathy P
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
Thank u
Arleighn Cowan-Falzone
LFrancoeurFeatured Guest
You're welcome! Good luck everyone!
Jen
Thanks to everyone! To continue the discussion, head on over to our forums!
Jen
Kathy PModerator
Remember to check all the school resources we have collected - http://www.kidswithfoodallergi...ning-for-school.aspx
Kathy P
chrissyvalenti
Thank you!
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